Losing My Religion
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Audio Recording by George Hahn
What has been the most significant change in the American experience over the past century? The internet, civil rights, antibiotics? The transition from a manufacturing to a service economy, or rapid urbanization? Right up there, I believe, is the displacement of religion from the center of our culture and what has taken its place. Religions and religious institutions play key roles in society, practical and spiritual. Humans are meaning-makers, we’re wired to imbue our actions with purpose. We will have gods, even if forced to make them of mortals … or machines.
It Works (Sometimes)
Religion is successful because it works. Participation in religious services is correlated with a reduction in mortality by a third, depression by 25%, and suicide rates by 3 to 6 times. Religion motivated the construction of cathedrals, pyramids, and temples that, set against space travel and pocket computers, still invoke awe. Here in the secularizing U.S., religious people are 3 times as likely to be active in community organizations and twice as likely to participate in local sports leagues. They’re also 44% more likely to vote and 44% more likely to describe themselves as “very happy.”
Yeah, But…
Much of religious experience has been insular, hostile to change, riven with corruption and abuse of power. The previous sentence may be the mother of all understatements. The Land of the Free was born of a violent theocracy: Contrary to what you likely learned in grade school, the earliest English settlers wasted little time before exiling anyone who differed on the fine points of biblical interpretation. Eight of the original thirteen colonies had official state churches and persecuted heresy.
From 1300 to 1600, European towns executed tens of thousands of their own people, mostly women, on accusations of witchcraft — over 3,000 in my ancestral Scotland. And in the New World, the single village of Salem executed 20 people out of a population of just 1,400. The ratio of positive to negative is legitimate cause for debate, but there’s no denying religion matters.
Fading
Religion, like old actors, doesn’t die — it’s just fading away. Churches are still operating, and people still line up to see El Papa, but religious observance, practice, belief … is down, almost everywhere. Like, ad-supported-cable down. Even where it persists, Christianity coexists with other religions and other passions. In America, 75% of us believe religion is losing influence. We’re correct. Napoleon said religion is the only thing that keeps the poor from murdering the rich. As our nation prints more wealth and poverty, and as we register a decline in reasons to congregate (church, work, the mall), we are witnessing a palpable increase in hostility among Americans toward … other Americans.
Exceptions distort our view of the long-term trend. Compared to 40% of Americans generally, 59% of Black Americans say religion is very important to them. (In part this is a legacy of the role of churches and church leaders in the Civil Rights Movement.) But their fidelity is waning: 28% of Gen Z Black people are religiously unaffiliated, compared with just 11% of baby boomers. Membership in the Mormon church, once a growth engine, has also stalled.
Abroad, religious nationalism (which may be more the latter than the former) is driving political change in India, and it remains a headline issue in the Middle East. But even Saudi Arabia is creeping toward secularization. Much of the rest of the world is already there. In China, only 10% of people claim affiliation with a religion, and only half of them attend services. Only 11% of Western Europeans say religion is very important in their lives, and only 22% attend services regularly.
Meet the New Gods
It’s worth taking a moment to consider the monumental nature of this shift. Our species hasn’t known a time when religion played such a small role in our lives. Being religious is our natural state. And nature abhors a vacuum.
We are finding substitutes in two realms, the spiritual and the corporeal. Humans need meaning, we crave stories and reasons and higher explanations for things. We want someone (or something) to tell us what it all means. I believe this was a significant factor behind the rise of Google. Now, even more so, it’s powering our fascination with AI.
Google and ChatGPT are omnipresent, all-knowing, and soon, all-powerful. Our god(s) can drive cars and use credit cards. Sentient yet immortal, everywhere and nowhere — feels like a god worthy of worship, no? A: No.
If we’re not worshiping the tech itself, we are treating its masters as high priests. No group cements this more than the Elon stan army. Their idol is a brilliant entrepreneur, a world-changing innovator, and a Jew-baiting absent father of 11 (or 12)? The refusal to hold Musk to the same standards we try to live up to defines the distinction between admiration and worship.
Tech is not our only new god, however. Our need to follow is easily transferred from the pulpit to the stump. I didn’t plan to write about politics this week, but it’s inescapable. Donald Trump looms over the American landscape, more myth than man, worshiped as a savior persecuted by the sinners of the left. There’s ideological and demographic overlap between Trump’s followers and fundamentalist religion: Christian nationalist identity is highly correlated with political extremism and violence, and was bound up in the events of January 6. Equally concerning: 85% of adherents believe or mostly believe that God has called Christians to exercise dominion over all areas of American society. (Spoiler alert, they haven’t succeeded.)
Empty Pantry
Religion is not merely a spiritual succor. Religious institutions have long provided the foundation and framework of society. Their declining relevance leaves a vacuum of more immediate and practical concern than our need for meaning. Catholic schools enroll 1.7 million American kids. Around 15% of parents rely on faith-based child care. More than half of food pantries, which people rely on heavily during economic downturns, are church-affiliated.
For decades, one of the major fault lines in American politics has been the social safety net. I, and half the country, believe the government’s role is to provide it. The other half hates the notion. It’s no coincidence that my half is largely (not entirely) made up of people whose religious connection is scant.
Alain de Botton has a book about this, Religion for Atheists, in which he goes through the practical things religious institutions have provided in the past. In our increasingly atomized society, the physical coming together of weekly church attendance is sorely missed. Most religions provide moral guidelines that (at their heart) are simple and useful. Don’t steal. Be good to your parents. Render aid to the needy.
4x
My father has been married and divorced four times, so my religious indoctrination has been more varied than consistent. When I was at my dad’s, I’d go with Linda (No. 3) to a Unitarian church. At my mom’s, we’d go intermittently to Temple.
Statistics and trends only tell us so much. The role of religion is personal. While inconsistent, the impact of religion on my development was real. I remember the rabbi at Temple Isaiah delivering a d’var Torah that spanned from the conflict in the Middle East to the role of friendship. Afterward, over a brisket dip at Junior’s Deli, my mom and I would discuss the sermon, and I remember thinking, “This is fun, and I’m good at it.” I asked my mom what rabbis did and how much money they made. “They educate and comfort people, and not much. However, they command a great deal of respect.”
In high school, my closest friend was Mormon. He was part of a two-parent family who loved sports, laughed a lot, and treated me well. As a latch-key kid raised by a working single mother, I was at the Jarvis household almost every day. I went to church events, played on their sports teams, and even went to services a few times. I never felt any pressure to convert/sign-up/etc. My observation from spending several years in and around Mormons and their church: The Mormon faith is strange, and Mormons are wonderful.
Devout Atheist
My path to atheism has been downhill. I’ve always been skeptical and judgmental, and consider myself a scientist. This made it easier to dismiss believers as idiots. As I got older, I realized my belief that all “this” was nothing and then it exploded sounded no less bat-shit crazy than the parables about loaves and fishes. Regardless, my atheism is a source of strength, as it motivates me to envision my death — the end of the road vs. an off-ramp. Imagining my death has made me less afraid of it and more bold in my behavior preceding the event (i.e., now).
I’ve been more bold in my career, but also in my emotions. Risking embarrassment, I frequently tell people I love them because … why wouldn’t I? Those who might laugh, like me, face the same destination … soon. I’d also like to think that the absence of preordained truths fosters a relentless pursuit of knowledge, a deeper appreciation for the wonders of the universe, and a profound respect for the inherent value of all living beings.
Wanting
It’s clear to me that every being will register joy and tragedy, and the ratio is 90% a function of when and where you’re born and the chemistry you inherit. Seneca believed religion was regarded by the poor as true, the wise as false, and the powerful as useful. As someone who has been all of those things, however, I find the absence of religion and opportunities to congregate with strangers leaves a void. I’m getting older, wanting to serve in the agency of others, to be part of something bigger, and register comfort. I’m left wanting. I’m losing my religion.
Life is so rich,
P.S. This week on the Prof G Markets podcast we discussed the Google antitrust trial. Tune in every Monday, or go to our YouTube, for our weekly markets analysis.
P.P.S. If you lead a team or department, join our next (free) run of Leading in the Age of AI. You can get a sneak peek into Greg’s thinking in this post.
Speaking as a Jew, Elon Musk is not a Jew baiter.
Thanks for this candid and nicely written piece. I was in full-time evangelical missions work for 20 years. I lost faith in the veracity of scripture and in the belief in genuine divine intervention. It was a long, painful process to let go of something that romanced me and guided my decisions since late teens. Walking away was devastating. Twenty years have passed and I returned to States and built three companies. Life is good and I’m at peace. But I completely empathize with your assessment that, without religion, some aspects of social networking and society care come up lacking. We do need purpose and belonging and comfort and hope. They are good things. We have to learn, all over again, how to find them in the absence of a questionable belief system. Thanks for sharing.
Great insight SG. Note, as a Christian our faith is not about what we do 1 hour on a Sunday nor is it about religious’ acts or rituals. Jesus spent most of his time calling out and condemning Pharisees while he ate with, forgave and healed sinners. God doesn’t want us to just know about him, he want’s us to know him as our heavenly Father. Relationship vs Religion. Being a good neighbor or coworker may be the only “bible” a non believe ever reads. We pray without ceasing (ongoing chat vs say a letter), worship through music and fellowship with others, generously give away our time and talents to those in need. Surrender to his will for us each day. Make space and time to hear from him through his gift of the Holy Spirit. He’s not just our Lord, he’s our creator, savior and Father. If every person simply followed the greatest two commandments “Love God and love people” we wouldn’t even have to worry about the other 340 commandments and trying to please him with our religious acts.
Scott – you made a key point early in that both positives and negatives are ripe for debate. However for most of the essay you didn’t ask the key question – why is the western world and pockets in the middle and east secularizing? Maybe an answer is is because the good parts and high moral teachings eventually get obscured by all the batshit craziness found in all Abrahmic faiths. In the end you touch the answer to a path for society in quoting Seneca but missed the opportunity to delve into a time period when the ancients practiced high virtues, right life, treatment of fellow man, moderation of behavior, and harmony with nature through Stoicism and other philosophical traditions. The Abrahamic faith were enticing like most cults, offering easy reward, heaven, for submission to control and accumulation of power by the religious leader class. Add bare knuckles politics to this and suddenly you have a combustible mix of weapons to instill subservience in the society. How did William the conqueror, a gangster and thug, so easily take over the land of your ancestors? As you said life is so rich!
Some brave thinking Mr. Galloway. Thank you.
The big question is, do we want to be on the top or do we want to be on the bottom? Do we want to be proud or do we want to be humble?
The key ingredient of authentic religion is humility. We have to feel ourselves as being less than that thing that is greater than us all. We have to feel nearly insignificant, nearly non-existent even, in the face of the greater good.
Seneca’s quote about the wise is wrong. We know that today. All sense-making is ultimately a religious act. There’s religion and there’s solipsism. That’s our choice.
Our modern world and our modern sciences have brought us to this beautiful point that we get to choose – and the evidence for religion as an antidote to modern nihilism is compelling.
Thank you for reminding us all of that.
From Stephen Hawking: The Question of Belief
When asked about his belief in God, Hawking’s response was clear. He believed that there was no proof of a higher power and that the universe could be explained through the laws of science. In an interview with El Mundo, a Spanish newspaper, he stated, “Before we understand science, it is natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation.”1 Hawking’s views on religion were not limited to a single religion. He believed that all religions were based on the same principles of faith and did not offer any factual evidence. He is, for all intents and purposes, an atheist.
It’s easy to be a follower. It’s more difficult to understand science. A lot of folks in the world don’t have the education or time to understand science.
All science is based on the notion that the universe is intelligible. To be “intelligible” there must be an intelligence “outside” of the system by definition. How can you have intelligibility without an outside intelligence? You can’t. Science is dishonest when it pretends that we can have knowns without the necessity of a knower.
Ireland where I am from and live, is one of the fastest secularising countries in recent times, changing from an insular, church dominated peripheral place to a modern, open and prosperous place. The formerly dominant Catholic Church has a meagre influence and is not part of the national conversation any more.
However, many regard themselves as ‘culturally Catholic’ in the sense that we are not simply a bland atheistic northern european country.
I really think that you sum it up well with “I find the absence of religion and opportunities to congregate with strangers leaves a void”.
Its hard to see the Church in its current introverted and dysfunctional form responding to what I see as a demand for something bigger than the Church itself, both at a personal and church/society level.
Like Scott, I am torn – I think that well-practised religion is good for society, but I don’t practice religion myself. Partly this is because none of my peers do, and in that sense the congregation aspect is no longer there.
I see the underpinnings of Western society, the legal system, our systems of norms and values which have led to high functioning trust based societies as products of Christian religion and education. I’d really like a way to participate in the continuance of that structure, to congregate with others who feel the same way, but I, and I suspect many others, are at a loss as to how to do that.
You know the answer, don’t run from it. Find a community of believers who you can worship with. The “church” is a community of believers in God and Christ. Focus on the common themes of what it means to be a Christian and ignore the parts of today’s church that turn you and your peers off. A more fulfilled life awaits you.
Such a nice read. The absence of religion definitely has made me appreciate my life more. The idea that ‘this is it’ compels me to make the most out of this all, and cherish it at the end of the day.
But the more imagine death, I keep on worrying about it. Although similar to your experience I gained confidence in many things, I also lost the confidence for adventures that can increase the probability of my death. Still though can see myself being more comfortable with the idea of hitting the end of the road.
“I find the absence of religion and opportunities to congregate with strangers leaves a void. I’m getting older, wanting to serve in the agency of others, to be part of something bigger, and register comfort. I’m left wanting”
I was wondering this before this email, but why the hell aren’t you running for office?
So well articulated, it’s feels akin to wrestling down this emerging “truth” in my mind. It frightens me somewhat, what will fill that void. For me there is only one thing getting us out of this… love. I need to see others as myself. Religion has been the transmitter of that message in the past albeit less so lately. Where do we go from here?
The community part of being religious can be good. Not always, but often. I experienced that myself. However, I have a bit of distrust toward the part where actively religious people reported having less depression & being very happy. And the reason is…. it’s self-reported. There are a few motivations, at least for American Evangelicals, to report being very happy or having less depression. And I speak as someone who grew up in it, and was heavily involved until my mid-30’s. I was on leadership teams at churches, led music/worship teams, read my Bible daily and spent time in prayer every day. It was the center of my internal world. I’m not a part of that world or belief system anymore, after several years of studying biblical scholarship and asking deep questions I dare not let myself ask before. However, here’s why I don’t trust the self-reporting on depression & happiness….. One of the motivations, in those circles, is in order to “be a witness” to unbelievers. If you go around telling people you’re depressed or unhappy, or on a survey, or to a doctor, or just acting like it, why would people want to come to your church or convert to your God/religion? There’s a LOT of signaling that goes on, both for people outside the tribe, and for people inside. And to yourself. You don’t want unbelievers to think you aren’t happy if you are trying to convert them. Second, you need to signal to people inside the tribe that you are happy.
B/c if you are perpetually depressed or unhappy, in those circles, trust me, the blame is on you. It’s your fault. You aren’t trusting God enough, you don’t have enough faith, or you aren’t reading your Bible enough or spending enough time in prayer and worship, or you aren’t “living by the spirit” or “putting on the full armor of God,” or something is wrong in your relationship with God. Also, you don’t want people in the tribe (or God) thinking you are being a bad witness to unbelievers, or being a bad Christian. So you had better be happy – mostly anyway – you better act happy, and report that you are happy. Lastly, it’s part of the belief system in Evangelical Christian circles that you need to be joyful. It’s one of the “fruits of the spirit” listed in the New Testament. Also, there’s the whole thing of living “by faith.” So if you don’t “feel” joy, you claim that you have joy “by faith.” There’s a lot of psychology behind all of this, mostly subconscious. I just don’t trust the self-reporting on this.
To be fair, one of the studies on depression indicated, “Depression was defined as self-reported physician-diagnosed clinical depression, regular anti-depressant use, or severe depressive symptoms.” So a few different things they were looking at, but all of them were self-reported. And how many people in those circles never go to a physician to discuss depression or would even consider medication b/c of the reasons I laid out? The one by Pew Research about being “very happy” was just a survey, self-reported. It’s not that I think they are purposefully lying, I think it’s more subconscious motivations, under the surface. There’s a lot going on there. That being said, it’s clearly not everyone b/c it’s not 100% claiming to have no depression or to being very happy. Just a larger percentage. But I believe it’s a flawed number and impossible to nail down. I personally don’t trust it. I know some wonderful people still in those circles, & I really love them. And the community part definitely has its positives, with us being such a social species. Anyway, my two cents. Love the podcast.
Great points Grant, I resonate with what you’re saying (and have a similar personal story as well). I can’t imagine most of the evangelicals that I know or grew up with admitting that they’re “depressed.” I think some (but certainly not all) of them would even go so far as to consider it a sin.
You’re right, the psychology is absolutely fascinating. That’s what’s intrigued me the most in the few years since I was able to extricate myself from the dogmatic belief system.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Gods are a human creation meant to explain the then unknowable and later to justify a hierarchical social order designed to maintain the powerful in their ensconced positions atop society and perpetuate the inequitable division of the fruits of their society.
Cu Jo, Well that was succinct and well stated!!!
Bingo
Appreciate your column, but your conclusion that religion is important and a “natural state” for society doesn’t take into consideration that some of the “happiest” countries in the world are significantly more secular and less religious than the US (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, New Zealand). To me, these countries challenge the assertion that religion is important for society and suggest there are other and more important variables at play in the US (aside from declining religion).
Your post is very interesting and states the sad fate of Western civilization, especially in America. Drugs, alcholol and mind/mood altering substances are the new God. At age 52 I found AA and have been a loyal member for 35 years, AA is non-secular and open too any person to come and go as one wishes, and to live the tennets to the best of their ability. There is no leader, no heiarchy. Our Founders Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob were two flawed men. I have known multi,multi millionaires and hit men for the mob; hookers and scam artists who are all welcome. One wonderful result is a great deal of happines among the members who are dedicated to their own sobriety, drug freeness and helping others. There is no boss. In Fairfield county, where I live, we have over 2000 meetings a week held in Church backrooms or basements. Pastors, Rabbis and Priests would give their left arm for our attendenance which is 100% voluntary. This is what the world needs and it was founded by a drunk down and out stockbroker and a dead drunk Doctor. You might want to investigate this program or way of life. Simple, inclusive and careing. DSR
Beautiful article! I too have had trouble with authority: my dad was married 5 times. At 24 (over 30 years ago) I opened up like a zen loan over the thought, “the things you own, own you” and felt the presence of a loving “presence “. I never accepted religion but felt minimally there was a love behind my capacity to love, etc…For me the most important seed has sprouted, namely that while I still have tremendous problems with authority, I am no longer thinking the answers will come from satiating the 5 senses. I don’t wish to spend my days unquestioningly eating, sleeping, overindulging, and under contemplating. I no longer wish to sit just outside my own inner church ☮️ Your journey is not over my friend ❤️
With all these interesting statistics and heaps of praises on religion, I still find it intriguing why you will prefer to be an atheist
Scott. Swap “I” with “We” in this post and you’re headed in the right direction. Never give up. Peace…
You may want to read “The Purpose-Driven Life” by Rick Warren. Science and technology answer none of the profound questions … Why was I born? Why am I here? What, if anything, is my purpose? or, as Peggy Lee sang: “Is that all there is”?
Some questions are unanswerable, at least science doesnt make up BS answers and ask people to fall in line behind them under threat of punishment
What is the source for the 85% of “adherents” believing or mostly believing that God has called Christians to exercise dominion over American society statistic? Also, to what group does the word adherent refer – anyone who self identifies as Christians, or the fundamentalist/evangelical subset of that group, or persons who identify as (or are identified as such by the survey takers) as “Christian Nationalists”? If it’s the latter, just how big is the group? Thanks!
Besides football being the dominant religion in America -i.e.-filling the Sunday void as well as Saturday I thought your commentary about Mormons was…interesting. However my interaction with those who are Buddhists has me come to a conclusion that I also feel compassion when I deal with them-primarily visiting Thailand. I sometimes attend Christian megachurches in Texas which provide entertainment and thoughts but they seem rather more performative.
Long time reader, first time commenter. Scott’s posts are always thought provoking. This one is the most powerful I’ve read yet. I was raised in a fundamentalist evangelical doomsday cult called the Worldwide Church of God. I left in my early 30s, lost all my friends and family, and have never recovered. I’ve never been able to find another community where I felt like I belonged. I have no love for organized religion although I do recognize the benefits it has brought to society just as Scott has outlined. I’m now in my late 40s, single, no kids, live alone, have no ties to my community in spite of my best efforts to establish such, and for all intents and purposes I resemble the very sort of sterotypical outcome Scott has been warning people about for years. This post has touched me more than most because it hits such a raw nerve for me. Religion is the source of almost all my miseries and regrets. I recognize I will most likely die alone and much earlier than otherwise if I had found that “third place” for community. I take some comfort in knowing this wasn’t my fault and that I have, through great effort and pain, established a career and a life far more successful than most. But some day my career will come to an end…..and I try not to think much about what happens next after that.
Another thoughtful and true observation.
Good one. Mind you, I’m another white 50- something atheist dude in North America. Hashtag developmentally appropriate…. Regardless, well-put.
Prof G, I’m a big fan of the pod. I’ve been listening religiously (pun intended) from the beginning. I also look forward to the weekly No Mercy emails. I don’t always agree with your takes, but still enjoy your passion and authentic voice. That said, I have to question why you decided to release the audio version of the email using someone else’s voice. This makes no sense to me. The pod version of No Mercy always falls flat and is frankly weird hearing your first person takes as read by a third person. I encourage you to reconsider. Thanks for listening.
I just assume that it saves him a lot of time in a very full schedule to have someone else read his stuff. He has a whole team doing the different parts of doing a crap load of blog posts and podcasts, and – why not give the reading to someone else some of the time. No need to reply.
Another outstanding podcast by Prof Galloway. Hope you’ll follow up with a podcast about nonprofit status for churches. For example, Scientology, which I consider a cult and is more about hate than love, has a headquarters in Clearwater, FL, and has bought up much of the property downtown, now all tax free. Churches that preach love, help the poor, and give back deserve tax exempt status, but not all so-called churches do. Thanks!
Many have turned to mindfulness and more traditional eastern spiritual practices in search of transformative experience.
An atheist liberal. Shocking.
You can’t lose your religion if you’ve never had one.
Scott did have one, or was at least meaningfully exposed to religion. Others – including some commentators below – are unwilling to confront an unfamiliar idea yet are confident in drawing a conclusion about it, which is a sad affliction of our times.
Here’s an idea: go to a church, synagogue, Mormon temple. Pick something mainstream. Don’t wear a mask, do talk with people, and try to find a crazy one. You won’t.
You may not learn much about religion in an hour or so. But give yourself a chance – as did Scott – to learn something about yourself.
I love how you write with such honesty and humility. I agree with a lot of what you write about, and I also disagree completely with your conclusion that there is no supernatural force that is the reason we are here….
…And I still love reading this. I still find I can learn from your writing and be challenged by your perspectives.
Tim Keller said that “tolerance isn’t about not having beliefs. It’s about how your beliefs lead you to treat people who disagree with you.” And so, I can’t think of anyone who has done more to create a tolerant, just society than Jesus Christ.
He said the Hebrew Bible was summed up with 2 things: love God, love your neighbors. Pretty tough to argue that this wouldn’t objectively be an amazing thing if we lived that way.
He also said this, as recorded in the 5th chapter of the Gospel of Mathew:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. ‘ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.”
Of course, most of us don’t do that (Christians included, for sure)….but wouldn’t it be amazing if we did? For those who do believe that Jesus was not just a great teacher but also the divine Son of God, what an earth-shattering perspective to believe that this is truly how the God of the universe wants us to act towards one another.
Thanks, as always, for your thoughtful words and gracious tone.
Love the wrestling with these ideas as they are so worthy of deep reflection. Personal opinion, it’s “such a drag” to be told the only “rational approach” to such profound questions is to limit one self self to consider ONLY what can be known, as imagination can offer an additional richer internal and interpersonal experience. This doesn’t imply that one needs to believe in clearly stupid stuff.
Your article neglects to mention the rise of climate change as the new ‘religion’ motivating societal action. As crafted by the ruling elite (the World Economic Forum), the planet (Nature, Mother Earth) must be saved from humanity’s original sin (fossil fuel use). Redemption can only be achieved by personal sacrifice (less driving, less energy use, less people, less carbon) and donations (diversion of societal resources) to the task of redemption. Cloaked in ‘science’ the preachers are warning of the eternal damnation of humanity if their call to sacrifice and donation to their cause is not heeded while lining their pockets with the profits of the fight and justifying their control over society through fealty to the cause.
Unfortunately, the climate change religion has no ethical underpinning so the chaos enveloping the Western World is simply a distraction to those preachers who see their goal as achieving total control. The crackdown will come later when the chaos no longer serves their purpose. By then it will be too late. For a tutorial on this see the history of China from 1948 to the death of Mao and the assent of modern Communism in China.
There is no ethical underpinning because its not ethics, its science. Too bad you can’t understand it. A century from now you and those like-minded will be looked upon similar to how slave-owners are looked at today. I feel bad for you that you have been brain-washed with right wing BS even more than the extreme left has been brain-washed. Strip away all that crap and you are still left with and ACTUAL climate crises.
The Phantom God: What Neuroscience Reveals about the Compulsion to Believe
by John C. Wathey
Explains the almost innate need for a “God” with clear and detailed data. Once I read this, my perception of deeply religious people changed. Not for the better but with a more clear comprehension of why they were like that.
Thanks for your insights, D
This is exactly why I listen to you on podcasts and devour your emails. You are fair and not balanced. Meaning, you don’t feel a need to give ideas equal treatment. Yet you can hold disparate things in tension and with respect. This article is a classic example. You aren’t a bitter prideful atheists as many are. You are a seeker.
Of course, many “Christian’s” are bitter and prideful. I know this all to well as a pastor (one of those evil “mega church” pastors). Yet many of us aren’t. I wish you could have some beers with one of us. Maybe your life would be richer or maybe not. But I would love to see your powers of analysis in operation after being with someone who walked closely with God and gives grace to others. Someone who reads the Bible and understands culture. Someone who who has given their life to Jesus and given themselves to others out of love.
In the meantime, thank you for sharpening all is us and keeping it real.
Scott’s commentary, and upcoming book, on young men has reminded me of your book “Five Marks of a Man”.
Like you, I listen to his podcasts and receive his e-mails, such insight. Thanks and recognition to you as well as my pastor, looking forward to service tomorrow.
The book, The Immortality Key might give some other perspectives. I just finished reading for the second time.The author B. Muraresku makes an observation that although organized church attendance has and continues to fall, many folks are “SBNR” – Spiritual But Not Religious. Which is what I see all around me, often a collation of eastern religious thoughts. Christianity in particular, but also the other Abrahamic religions – Muslim and Judiasm are wrapped around the salvation concept, that every soul is born into sin and must be saved. This was the best way for societal control, and the Catholic Church ruled for about 1000 yrs with threats, torture, and burnings. Whereas the eastern religions, the “Dharmic” religions are focused on achieving higher states of realization and consciousness, right living, and the virtues of discrimination, forgiveness, detachment, etc. Personally, I’m a practioner in Eckankar, which re-boots and brings out of historical hiding, spiritual exercises to self realization and higher states. Its not about faith. It’s about experience (check in with Joe Campbell and those famous interviews with Bill Moyers back in the early 80s!) Thank you for your writings.
Hi Scott,
Very engaged with your opinions and stances. This, along with your many articles, is detached, observational and truly appreciated for exactly that. Your take on things is worth more than many others put together, and your silence can be deafening.
My take on this particular topic was piqued by your revleation that Napolean said the only thing keeping the poor from killing the rich, was religion.
Expounded, that touches on controlling the masses through workplace practices that have become the norm. 40 hours, two days off, etc. If ChatIwhatever is going to eliminate jobs, and we’re in the midst of a Climate Crisis, perhaps the current trend on legalizing organic mind-altering is the response that Ford and his Ilk had so long ago, except not so apparent.
All respect,
Patricia
Generally, spot on. The rebellion against religion was led by spoiled rich liberals who hate everyone, especially their parents, and society. They are slaves to TikTok definitions of ‘good looking’, rich, and successful, ignoring that it is all either fake or AI. I ditched the Catholic church at a young age, and do not need religion. But I now believe that most in America do. Those who rail against religion seem to ignore the role it plays in community. A gathering place, a place of acceptance, and a place of trust. First way to find those aspects of human existence is to TURN OFF left/woke media, IGNORE loud and obese celebs, and don’t support errant sports/music celebs. Build a good life for you and you family. Don’t give a dime to those fighting you…
You didn’t have a good leveraging to discover in love the tragedy of the difference of interaction between material & spiritual.
You stick Religion to the Material Man and you say: gotcha! You say Religion don’t work because they killed half world? First, the ones who used religion to kill, they are not Religious but infiltrated to serve the man; therefore it is not Religion fault – BUT fault of the MEN WHO PERFORM RELIGION WHIcH by the way ARE MADE BY THE SAME PASTE of WHOM THEY SAY ARE NOT RELIGIOUS!
IF RELIGION (a) SHOULD PERFORM a precise path and some do NOT apply that path, but their own one path (b) -> how can you call (a) = (b)??
Besides that, I am on the attention with your very creative brain, when it takes us to think deep and angled around all of it. really, BRAVO!
I am so sorry you are not in LA, as I would make you “believe” LOL and not by the scriptures or the complexity proposed (a little crazy – that’s why I love Cath – so much simpler) but leveraging your immense Own immense phrase that only a PURE of thoughts would have squeeze out:
<<>>
that’s it! you are saved, not by one white beards in the cloud, but something we do not know yet! .. as keep in mind 90% of the Universe mass is Missing!! haha
they call it Dark Matter or Dark Energy haha sure!
So much to respond to in your post! I’ll try to be brief, and prioritize. Posted in two parts, sorry, due to length.
Atheism, or agnosticism, doesn’t mean one can’t “serve in the agency of others, to be part of something bigger, and register comfort.” The community you choose to belong to, the organizations – or individual ways – through which you serve others, needn’t be a religious community. If it’s a sense of community and service you seek, there are lots and lots of secular options.
“In our increasingly atomized society, the physical coming together of weekly church attendance is sorely missed.” I agree that an inward- or overly self-focused society is detrimental to our individual selves and to society. However, see above.
“Most religions provide moral guidelines that (at their heart) are simple and useful. Don’t steal. Be good to your parents. Render aid to the needy.” True, these are embedded in most religions. But are they the only source of these guidelines, or are they in fact embedded in the fabric of healthy societies? How did I learn them given I had no religious upbringing? I hope nobody would tell me only because I grew up surrounded by those who gained these important insights through their religion, that I’m a “good” person only by dint of osmosis, a kind of free rider if you will. We can’t be good people without some external supreme being laying down the rules? To me that’s a very bleak view.
This is a tough one, Scott. I was raised Catholic, but have always preferred evidence over belief. Facts matter, and most of our issues today have a lot to do with a disassociation with the facts. Religion has always glued people together with a standard set of beliefs. The 20, shit, 10 commandments!
You didn’t need a religion to establish those as values. They are largely self-evident. Long before we weaponized the DOJ, we weaponized religion! The moral majority. They weren’t a majority, or particularly moral. But it made for a good sound bite.
What I’d love to see is an organizing mechanism like religion that is even more fundamental and immutable. Not sure what it will be, but clearly money hasn’t worked because some have it and some don’t. Borders haven’t worked. Ultimately, it could end up being survival, but humans have historically exploited that too. So we’ll see.
The only real truth is that world does not need us. Only we need us. The world will be fine – better than fine – without us.
well stated
As someone who was raised religious and liberal (Disciples of Christ) I feel exactly the same as you describe in this article. I miss the community, the hymns, the lessons and the morals of Church. As a scientist, I find I cannot believe in the mysticism, but I can’t help but think that our western values have been so shaped by Christianity that without religion, we lose a pillar that holds up our entire value system. Can our society survive if you take away the Christian teachings of humanism, charity, and the protestant ethic? In our drive to remove religion from our lives, are we taking it all for granted?
Scott, thanks for the thoughtful post.
I’ve noted that in most podcast episodes you (and Kara) make either explicit or implicit ethical judgements in your observations. Ethics rest upon values and in turn upon some standard of behavior. If there is no god which is external to our reality, from where do these values / standards emanate? From nature? The example of nature is that powerful organisms eat less powerful organisms (with no mercy and no malice). Not great for organizing what we might think of as a fruitful society where people can flourish without looking over their shoulder every minute. From people? Which people or which person supplied these standards? Who is the go-to for values? Further, why do we humans routinely fail to live up to the standards we espouse?
Chris,
“The example of nature is that powerful organisms eat less powerful organisms (with no mercy and no malice).” This is both overly simplistic, and true of humans as much as many other organisms. Humans eat LOTs of other organisms.
As to the basis of our ethics and morals, there are MANY things about our brains, our minds, our actions and behaviours we don’t fully (or in some cases begin to) understand yet. Answering “Why?” with “Because it must have been designed that way by a supreme being” is not an answer, it’s a decision to stop asking. And of course it’s been applied countless times in the past to questions and problems which we since have in fact – to our great credit – solved.
If these values come from the hand of a god, it makes me curious to know where in the tangled evolutionary web of species they were embued. Did this god wait until homo sapiens? Or was it earlier, in one or more of our many ancestral species? Or does accepting this hand-of-god hypothesis require dismissing evolution, accepting only Genesis, that humans were created this way from the onset?
I don’t mean to sound snarky, I promise; I just can’t see the logic of your position that the powerful (non-humans) eating/dominating the weak is proof that our values and ethics are divine gifts.
I am a Scot, as well, in my 80th year on the planet. I was indoctrinated into the Episcopal church, my grandparents were English and I stayed with them on the weekends. In college I studied religion through the lens of history and began questioning everything; it never comes up smelling like a rose. In my 40s I began doing Outward Bound training, learning to be in Nature with next to nothing. It was a visceral and spiritual experience which transformed my life and a lifestyle I continue to this day. I have pretty much let go of what I was raised to believe. In its place, I feel a responsibility to the world and all that’s in it, preferring the wilderness to civilization.
You love life and people that’s religion enough for many of us in our congregation. Listen to you & Kara on Pivot to keep up with wisdom about the tech gals & guys in hope our species lemming like follow them off a utopian cliff. Who knows if you’re wrong about god & death probably he just sit you down and say something like “Show me your slides Scott.” You’ll do okay.
Provocative read and a fun one – I always enjoy when you can’t help but dabble in the bigger questions. I’m hearing a lot about the “void” lately, certainly is not a new hangup with the new-athiest movement for me at least, but it’s interesting how many are now admitting it’s there. Might even indicate the beginning of a pendulum swing reversal (see, I can do bold predictions too)
So I watched a TikTok video where the main objection among conservatives with having government provide assistance to the poor is that at their core charity is the role of religious institutions and that the price for the poor to accepting aid is joining the charity’s religion. It explains the demands of a charity asks for aid in things like temporary housing (don’t smoke, don’t drink, an early curfew). These days those who need help balk at such kinds of assistance which is why self fundraising for medical help are the first avenue now: they don’t judge your faults. Those who need help also think similar demands are piled from government agencies meant for assistance. Kind of why some of the homeless prefer to remain homeless instead of seeking help: they don’t want to be judged while asking for help.
The decline of interest in religion is mostly attributable to focus on “traditional” marriage and sexual repression. The harder the far right fights the changes taking place, the more people walk away. Which is a shame for all the reasons Scott listed, culture warriors are destroying all the good things religion can bring.
Among other things, it seems you inherited ambition from your father.
There is so much wrong with the analysis its hard to know where to begin. I will limit myself to two comments. The Healthiest societies on the planet are the most secular. This is a consistent finding, and yes, its much more complicated than just the secular aspect of those countries. We often try to simplify, or find correlations that are not causations. Second, in response to religious people in the US being more likely to …… let’s look at it from a different angle. Lets take 3 groups. Group A is made up of family units that attend a religious service 50 times a year. This means they made the commitment to get some sleep, do something as a family, be committed to the family unit and meet other people. Group B family units NEVER attend a religious service other than maybe occasionally go to a Unitarian “church”, but 50 times a year they go hiking, or to a museum, or go shopping, or to a movie, or a lecture, or the park, visit an historical site, or……in other words do the same (but better) actions of Group A. Group C does none of the above. Which group will be more community minded? Which will be more “moral”? I’d say the answer is not likely to be group c, while Ill put my money on group B to at least equal or exceed group A and they wont have trained their offspring (if any) to believe stuff on faith, BUT EVIDENCE.
I share your thoughts about the effect on society with the demise of churchgoing.
As an atheist who grew up in an evangelical church, I have found community, purpose, and fulfillment in my local Unitarian Universalist church.
Mary, my inclusion of Unitarian “church” came BEFORE I read your post LOL. Great job, I was brought to a unitarian community until I was 12 and we moved to an area where that wasnt an option. I disliked it, but I now appreciate its value. Cheers,
Scottish?!? That explains everything!😂
Wonderful post!
People (religious, atheist, etc) are searching for meaning. 90% are looking in the wrong places. Christ never asked us to go to church every Sunday, put money in the collection plate or bow to dogma (of the day, the week, the month, the century, etc). All he asked was for us to help others and to be kind to everyone!
When you look at the world around you, it’s very difficult to believe in an all knowing, powerful god. But even if you don’t believe in some deity, Christs’ direction to us is still a wonderful place to start.
Can we help everyone? No. But you have to start somewhere. (Yes, the government can help. But any organization that is big enough to give you everything is also big enough to take it away).
Ooof! That really covers it. You are absolutely not alone. I hope that makes you feel a lot better. Just reading this through has made me feel better and less alone. Thank you.
After not attending a church for decades, I started about 10 years ago and surprisingly found community and meaning working with victims of human trafficking in Nepal and India. I never saw that coming. We see the children (yes children) regularly tutoring English over Zoom and making in person trips as finances allow. Sponsoring their schooling (most families are poor or have abandoned the children) is another avenue. I would not have found this without the church we attend. Sort of found my religion in this case. Great article, Scott. Thank you for your work and making life better for so many. Remember god spelled backwards is dog.🐶
As I read this, I increasingly expected to hear some reference to American Gods (Neil Gaiman)…! I think the book’s message is pretty much the same as this week’s post’s.
I’m new to you and Kara, but in just a few weeks I have learned much and thought about new ideas. Every time I’m certain you are 95% curmudgeon, you surprise me with compassion and empathy. Can’t wait to learn more!!
I always liked and related to what Sean Penn said about religion. “When people say there’s a god, it sounds like a punchline. But when they say there is no god, that also sounds like a punchline.”
So, you are invited for a shabbat dinner next time you are in Denver. Good conversation, excellent beer, no judgement. Pretty simple yet underrated
You know, you wouldn’t fear life or death if you were a Christian?
Those concepts aren’t necessarily connected. I know many people who identify as Christians and still live in fear. I also know that one can overcome fear without being Christian.
Many non-Christian religions look at death not as something to fear, but something to accept and make peace with as an inevitability, as a part of their lives, as a part of the natural world, as part of the “circle of life”
I am amazed at how people can manage to be successful when the foundations of their understanding of how the Universe works is based on myths and fabrications that, with any scrutiny, are obvious fabrications. And to be clear: science is not knowledge — it is the current best description of how things behave. It is a process, and is constantly being updated. BTW, the concept of ‘knowledge’ is misleading because we really don’t know anything. The reason science ‘works’ is that those descriptions of how things behave yield formulae that experimentation and experience do provide us with systems we can use and rely upon. Science and religion are not at odds except when religion makes a prediction that simply does not or cannot materialize. Religion makes pronouncements about what things are, science describes how things behave. Different.
I loved this. I was raised by Jewish atheists (yes folks, not an oxymoron) so I never had the inner tumult of forsaking religion. Never had the dogma, so never missed it. Our paths have been similar; even down to the brisket at Junior’s. Loved my Mormon friends, their emphasis on family and education, and did not have much respect for their religion. But when I was raising my children, now grown, I longed for more of a sense of community and found it somewhat in secular humanism, but it still never completely took hold.
But Scott, I only recently discovered you and wanted to tell you how much I love how you express yourself, wise and human and vulnerable.
JW’s believe that the earth will be transformed back into the paradise it once was. Mankind will live forever without pain, sorrow, or death. Hell is not punishment but the storehouse of the deeply sleeping dead, awaiting their resurrection. Heaven is not a reward but the domain of the Creator and his heavenly family. The Creator’s default arrangement is the family. The kingdom he delegates to his son will achieve all of this. It’s the same kingdom mentioned in the Lord’s Prayer. The Gospels report JC’s brief life on earth as a preview of what he will do as king. Very unlike Mormonism
Check out UU. Many join us for fellowship as we have no dogma.
Religion as an explanation of existence i find is meaningless. As a provider of a sense of community – invaluable. Thus the two need to be carefully merged.
Being an atheist is a faith itself, and one particularly arrogant, as it almost flippantly diminishes the faith of others. Your post is masterful, however, as, whether intended or not, you make clear your struggle: you are happy but unsettled, and in the end you acknowledge a desire for something more, a link to a spiritual whole, or at the very least to human community. I wish people would talk about these issues: while there is unlikely to be resolution, an open-mind and honest discussion would go a long way to healing fractured souls (politics, the media, intolerance, greed, technology etc.). My soul lives in consternation and absolute terror of being alone. I am sure others share that thought. We live like stoic soldiers in battle when, as Motown says, we should smile and dance to the music.
“Much of religious experience has been insular, hostile to change, riven with corruption and abuse of power.”
Insular – yes, when the culture veers away from or contradicts core beliefs. Accurately interpreting culture can be an issue though.
Hostile to change – yes, again when it directly challenges church doctrine.
Riven with corruption and abuse of power – yes, just like most other groups (e.g., politicians, unions, activist organizations, corporate leaders, etc.). Pretty much any large group of people. Churches would be wonderful places if not for all the people.
I always wonder how people can be so 100% certain there is no god. Not even leaving open the possibility. It requires a great deal of faith to be so certain.
All this aside, very good article. Honest and open. Thanks for sharing.
Scott – you wrote: “I’m getting older, wanting to serve in the agency of others, to be part of something bigger, and register comfort. I’m left wanting” – have you considered becoming a volunteer EMT? Checks all your boxes.. working great for me.
Thank you for this great post. Can one be atheist. I think everyone believes in something. We all secretly belong to the religion of consumerism, whether we like it or not. We consume and we show what we have or don’t have.
To want to believe in God is to try to know the unknowable. To understand the unknowable is a life’s journey, but I think we all are geared to search for the unknowable. If there is a God, pretty sure all he cares about is that we are kind to each other…or figure out how to truly love each other. Especially when we don’t understand someone or their decisions.
Glad you tell people you love them. We should all do this more.
Scott, as usual you and I agree on a lot of things, have been on a remarkably similar journey through lives (including the 2nd ‘mom’ – a Ba’hai in my case) and a bunch of exposure to other households as a latchkey kid in the 70’s, plus a summer in Lutheran Bible Camp (because child care), about 2,650 miles dead east of you.
I’m an athiest, though I believe deeply in the spiritual energy that animates all things which in turn motivates me to always do the right thing (rosary-clutching grandparents notwithstanding).
But … that’s not a call to attend anything structured. It’s fun and easy to call out problems, and it’s massively helpful to frame situations with as much objectivity as Scott Galloway is capable of, but it’s really hard to find solutions.
One thing about religion is it’s already there waiting for your, and all your friends are doing it, and you sit most of the time. Somehow in the process you tick a box which can be satisfying.
Most religions are ~ 2000 year old legacy brands, beautifully pre-packaged and easily consumed, just like the foods making us all fat, from brand names we all worship. Substitutes are hard to find, though one can learn to cook and read labels. What’s the moral equivalent to that for the other half… non-religious folks like me…?
I look forward to returning to these comments for ideas on what we can lean into, and recruit friends into as well.
Again with the praise of Mormonism? I don’t get it. Do you really understand what that religion is about? It’s pure misogyny and getting to heaven through conversion to Mormonism and tithing. It’s about the money. I realize that they are family-oriented and rally to support their own, but it isn’t without expectations of devout service and payment to the church
People of God >> People of State >> People of the network
I pray with others in the congregation of Rabbis Scott & Kara many times a week.
They are always thoughtful and funny.
They often disagree respectfully.
Rabbi Scott’s penis and Dad jokes are always enlightening.
Rabbi Kara has taught me more about life style choices than I ought to have learned in school, but was not taught.
They are not judgmental about anything or anyone (other than Elmo and Uncle Satan).
They are the essence of un-ordained Good People.
They are living proof that one does not need to wear a costume to be “holy”.
“ideological and demographic overlap”
😳😳😳
Dude… They are the same circle!
Great article as always.
Sounds wonderful until you realize you can and others around you can do all those things without religion. There are clubs and sports and concerts and all the things you love to get the community you miss. Religion, is a placebo which often does a lot of harm while promising a lie which any energy put into returns nothing, so any effect is not real and might as well be as useful as homeopathy.
True… But we don’t. Scott has talked about the death/lack of male fellowship in the past. And it’s true… Churchie folks make it a point to leave the house and get together and socialize with these groups consisting of both friends and complete strangers whom you have ca connection too… And this allows us to expand friendships and our social circles outside of church. And that’s better for all of society in a general sense.
Ok sure… You HAVE TO GO… in order to avoid that whole “eternal damnation and torture in a burning lake of sulphur” thing… But other than that… It doesn’t take a genius too see that there is an overall benefit to society.
Sure, we can seek out a group and meet up to play pool or watch sports, but it’s just not the same kind of fellowship.
And then beyond that, kids learn how to behave, get used to dressing respectably… Well… They used to. We go to church once or twice a year and I find it shocking what is considered acceptable attire.
There’s extremely positive social benefits to most aspects of religious activities. If it wasn’t for the religion part… It would be awesome.
A long time ago, a friend told me that the two most deadly and destructive forces are nationalism and religion. I have come to realize he was correct.
I’ve been thinking about this for quite some time… a secular “church” organization and gathering to commit to every weekend, in a local format, for a sense of community without the spiritual. TED talk sermons and healthy practices of meditation. Come as you are. Belief in Steve Jobs as our entrepreneurial savior. And you have to drive a Tesla to use the parking lot.
I pray with others in the congregation of Rabbis Scott & Kara many times a week.
They are always thoughtful and funny.
They often disagree respectfully.
Rabbi Scott’s penis and Dad jokes are always enlightening.
Rabbi Kara has taught me more about life style choices than I ought to have learned in school, but was not taught.
They are not judgmental about anything or anyone (other than Elmo and Uncle Satan).
They are the essence of un-ordained Good People.
They are living proof that one does not need to wear a costume to be “holy”.