National Service
National Service
Audio Recording by George Hahn
An Office Hours listener asked what I’d say to President Trump if he invited me to the White House. I’ve struggled my whole life with being right vs. being effective. So, as we’re meeting with the president … let’s focus on being effective. We don’t have much common ground, but we’re both fathers. Let’s start there. As we’d likely have only a few minutes, we’d need to be focused — one issue max. The one thing I’d advocate for? I’d make a case for mandatory national service, as I believe that even the most polarized societies can find common ground when it comes to their children. (Yeah, I know, the whole denying SNAP benefits to kids. But it’s my imaginary meeting, so just go with it.)
The Kids Aren’t All Right
I believe young Americans are fed up with a country they’re raised to love but that doesn’t love them back. Our spending priorities (entitlements), tax policies (capital gains and mortgage interest deductions), and fiscal priorities (bail-outs of incumbents) are the greatest transfer of wealth from young to old in history. Old people have figured out a way to vote themselves more money, and even if the younger generations aren’t good at it, they can do math.
The unemployment rate among 16- to 24-year-olds is 10.5% — the highest since the pandemic and, excluding that period, the highest since 2016. Zoomers report feeling more lonely, depressed, and anxious, and less successful, than other generations. It doesn’t help that 200-plus times a day they receive notifications on their phone that they’re failing, as their cohort vomits fake wealth/success onto them. The most noxious emission in America isn’t carbon but shame. Young people aren’t facing one crisis but a cascade of them — and that’s made worse by adults who enjoyed the shade of trees planted by others but are now clear-cutting forests meant for the next generation.
Connective Tissue
My parents belonged to the Greatest Generation. Their collective sacrifice won World War II, while their sense of national identity, forged by service, fueled the prosperity and progress of post-war America. On Prof G Conversations, historian Heather Cox Richardson told me “there was a very different sense of what it meant to be an American” then, adding that people prided themselves not on how much money they made, but how they took care of their communities. Writing about the people who came of age in post-war America, journalist Tom Wolfe coined the term the Me Generation. Prosperity created what Wolfe called “the luxury of the self.” I know that luxury well. I didn’t serve my country — one of my great regrets. Marketplace host Kai Ryssdal, a contemporary and Navy veteran, told me national service would transform America. “We don’t know each other anymore,” he said. “It’s a generational thing.”
At the end of Notes on Being a Man, I close with a letter to my sons, urging them to be patriots — to vote, pay taxes, and be evangelists for America and its values. I encourage them to give others the benefit of the doubt and treat them with respect, if only because they’re fellow Americans. For my boys’ generation, their fellow citizens are strangers. Our connective tissue is fraying. According to Gallup, the youngest Americans are the least patriotic. I believe mandatory national service could help repair the damage by encouraging young people to see themselves as Americans, first and foremost, and to be proud of that identity.
E Pluribus Unum
National service in Singapore, the most religiously diverse nation on Earth, is called “school for the nation,” because of its ability to forge a national identity. A study that looked at Singapore’s national service programs concluded that socialization is a key mechanism for transmitting norms and values, while contact with people from different groups reduces prejudice. Those who serve in units that are housed together were 17% less likely to close ranks around their demographic group. By comparison, each year of education beyond secondary school achieves the same effect, but by only 2.5%.
In the U.S., 6% of adults are veterans, while active-duty service members comprise less than 1% of all adults. An estimated 64,000 young Americans and an additional 200,000 seniors volunteer for AmeriCorps, the primary umbrella organization for civilian service programs. We have the programs, but lack scale. Still, we know what works. Democratic Congressman Jason Crow, an Army veteran, favors expanding voluntary national service. On Raging Moderates he said, “When city kids get together with farm kids, and white, Black, Asian, Latino, straight, and gay people roll up their sleeves and build something together … that creates a foxhole mentality that breaks down barriers and connects us.” The sentiment is bipartisan. Republican Senator Bill Cassidy has co-sponsored bills to strengthen AmeriCorps and provide tax relief to volunteers. Republican Senator Todd Young co-sponsored the Unity through Service Act. In 2016 candidate Trump said there was “something beautiful” about national service. On that point, we agree.
United We Serve
Enlisting in the military isn’t the only way to serve. The U.S. has a long history of civilian national service programs. While the mission of each program varies, Congress has historically identified two goals for national service: meeting the needs of communities and developing the capacities and character of participants. Underinvestment in these programs is an American tragedy. As a 2018 NIH report put it, “Higher levels of civic responsibility, voting, volunteering, employment, respect for diversity, and overall life skills such as decision making and time management are all associated with AmeriCorps participation.” We should ramp up AmeriCorps and define service broadly, as our nation’s needs are as diverse as our people. How young people serve — being rural firefighters, volunteering in a no-kill animal shelter, helping seniors, working in our national parks, — isn’t nearly as important as the service itself.
Priorities
Budgets illuminate national priorities and values. Our three largest expenditures — Social Security, Medicare, and the interest on the debt — are nearly half of the federal budget, mostly benefiting the 18% of Americans who are over 65. The Department of Education and SNAP — spending that overwhelmingly benefits the 30% of Americans under 25 — register 4% and 1.5% of the budget, respectively. To paraphrase Warren Buffet, there’s a generational war in America, and my generation is winning. The D in Democracy only works when wealthy (i.e., old) Americans elect even older Americans who then vote themselves more money.
What if instead of using “the future” and “children” for rhetorical flourish, we actually walked the walk and invested in them? A Brookings report estimated that if we expanded existing national service programs to include 600,000 young people, it would cost $19 billion per year; Americans spent 8x that amount on their pets last year. Scaling up to include all 3.9 million members of the high school class of 2025 would increase the cost to $123 billion. That’s real money, but it’s only about 17% of our nearly $700 billion annual tax gap — the difference between taxes owed and taxes collected. Expanding service opportunities would also generate an estimated 17x return on our investment, according to a 2020 analysis of AmeriCorps programs.
The benefits would be felt across society, as participants would augment nonprofits, as well as state and local government initiatives. Federal and local governments would also benefit from programs that address community challenges early, lessening dependence on other government programs and reducing expenditures in criminal justice, welfare, and public health. Meanwhile, people who complete a national service program would enter college or the workforce with more skills and greater confidence.
Gap Year
National service benefits everyone who serves, but the benefits are likely more profound for boys — a cohort that’s fallen farther and faster than any other group in recent memory. For boys, physical development progresses more rapidly than intellectual or emotional maturity. My friend Richard Reeves has argued in favor of “red-shirting” boys, just as we hold back college athletes for a year so they can develop further on the field. A structured period of one or two years after high school would give boys the opportunity to mature without the pressures of college or a career. It would also give some a second chance. Former IDF boss General Aviv Kochavi called national service a “societal take two” for young Israelis. “It doesn’t matter where you came from or what your background is,” he wrote. “A mediocre pupil or youth with a criminal past who dropped out of school can leave the past behind and become an outstanding leader.” We should give the same opportunity to every young person in America.
If we want our youth to feel invested in their country, then America needs to invest in its youth.
Life is so rich,
P.S. In our newest Prof G Podcast, China Decode co-hosts Alice Han and James Kynge unpack how the U.S. and China are building massive data centers that are reshaping global energy use and government policy. Listen here on Spotify or Apple or watch on YouTube.
80 Comments
Need more Scott in your life?
The Prof G Markets Pod now has a newsletter edition. Sign up here to receive it every Monday. What a thrill.
This is great but at first I thought it had been written well over a year ago. Americorp/VISTA was a great thing, I was a VISTA volunteer back in what seems like pre-history. But T2 has destroyed it along w/the rest of our institutions. And he was blowing wind when he suggested he thought national service was a great thing those many years ago.
I saw Sam Goldstein’s piece for Psychology Today telling people how it’s not a bad thing to be rude when petitioning corrupt authority figures.
I assume Sammo meant Donald Trump, but he and unethical editor Kaja Perina somehow forgot that they’re corrupt authority figures themselves, at least until they stop the unethical hypnotherapist.
Once I asked John Sleazy Ryder in its comments how to stop an unethical hypnotherapist and it chose to mock me, showing it knows the unethical hypnotherapist, every creature involved with TP is a corrupt authority figure.
I’m sure they know from the unethical hypnotherapist that I’m still holding back a bit, that I think of them as complete worthless assholes for their failure to be ethical. Although I’m not exactly showing worship in what I’m saying, I am showing more respect than I am thinking.
Dunno what ethics problems involving TP or its contributors others might be having, but I guess it’s okay to be rude to any of them, although I would caution that Susan Krause-Whitbourne, who actually suggested a psychologists’ coup on Trump, was more treasonous than rude.
I wouldn’t suggest being treasonous or otherwise criminal, although if Krause-Whitbourne somehow got posted, unethical Kaja might publish some other essay advocating for treasonous or otherwise criminal conduct.
Of course, Kaja and Sammo told me that what I just said is a good thing.
If I got a moment to speak to Trump and thought he were actually listening, I’d call for a ban on hypnotherapists, since I’ve had an encounter with an unethical hypnotherapist and have figured out that there’s no avenue toward getting these assholes to be ethically compliant.
I’d also ask him to have RFK Jr. do a complete ethical investigation of any psychologist or mental health professional who’s ever worked with a hypnotherapist.
Of course, I’m not exactly waiting around for an audience with the president.
I think there might be a few people out there who know that I’ve had a hell of an experience with an unethical hypnotherapist, one that deputized every asshole it could find to set off cues and have a good time going after me.
Anyone who did flunked the authority figure test. If they’d hurt me for a hypnotherapist that they knew didn’t want to let me know it was there, they’d definitely vote for a Hitler.
They could still regain a bit of self-respect, do the right thing, and stop the unethical hypnotherapist. After all, it let them know that it was there, and it left its shitty trail with them.
I hope each person who’s done something to me for the unethical hypnotherapist will take a moment to think: How would they feel if an unethical hypnotherapist violated THEIR brain? How would they feel about people who let it or joined it?
I’ve had a lot of people do stuff to me over the years for the filthy UCCHer. I hope I can reach at least one of them with my request to think about what you’ve done, presumably doing it with no thought whatsoever.
Why are you proposing policies which will never be implemented without your active political engagement and participation?
You are a rich man, Scott. Fund the program and run it. The whole country knows Congress is never going to implement the policy you are proposing — Congress cannot even maintain a fiscal budget.
Do you have the willingness to personally lead the implementation of the programming you are proposing? Because if not, it is unlikely to occur.
I am positive about this idea for several reasons.
I lived through the Draft and lottery for Vietnam and went to Medical School instead. My ‘payback’ or ‘Peace Corps’ was >30 years of care and service in 4 different University-affiliated Veterans Affairs (VA) Hospitals – absolutely win-win.
I believe the bipartisan scrapping of the draft was to avoid the kind of nonviolent protest against Vietnam for future American adventurism (consider Iraq and Afghanistan).
Importantly, voluntary service would be a great way to ‘redshirt’ or ‘gap year’ young volunteers, as suggested by Richard Reeves, but also give them a patriotic and positive source of meaning and purpose.
My VA story is summarized on my website: douglassandrewmorrison.com.
Your proposal commits a fundamental category error. You accurately diagnose my generation’s economic problems—the historic transfer of wealth, the inability to afford homes—yet you prescribe a purely social solution in national service that does nothing to address the root economic causes. It is a non-sequitur.
Furthermore, your choice to champion the IDF as a model for “civic virtue” is a disqualifying analytical failure. To hold up an institution currently being investigated by the ICJ for plausible genocide as a blueprint for unity is to commit an act of moral and historical decontextualization so severe that it invalidates your entire argument.
Ultimately, your proposal functions as a distraction. It shifts the debate away from difficult but necessary economic solutions (tax reform, wealth redistribution, housing policy) and instead asks for the labor and sacrifice of the very generation that has been most disadvantaged. It is not a solution; it is an intellectual alibi for the status quo.
unequivocally agree with this as someone that went through National Service and who’s country was somehow brought up as a good example in this piece. Laughable.
As much merit as your idea has, if you were to bring it up to Trump, he would see it as a draft, a way to build up the military with expendable bodies he could throw at any conflict, even an internal one, and expand his power. Don’t bring it up to Trump.
Tony can read minds lol
I do not agree with the whining from young people. No generation had it easy. While they pay to go to VietNam on a vacation, the situation was a bit different for us boomers…
To the point of national service, we an agree. But remember it includes women. Woke left controls the female vote and mind via social media. Think about what percentage of women will want to do such service? Talk to women from Singapore or Israel about national service or any other issue. You will have an adult conversation with a mature person. Now try having a one with the ‘average’ 20 year old American female steeped in Taylor swift and left wing politics. I believe national service would be good, convincing those in involved not so good.
So right, and yet so wrong.
Spot on about the need for service, but it should not be “national.” America, as a construct, is no longer viable. We should not be striving to homogenize. We should not be trying to “find the common ground” between Portland and Pennsyltucky, between Berkeley and Bentonville, between Greenwich Village and Galveston. The national government is so deeply poisoned (by theft, by racism, by corporate money), and there is no way a national program could benefit anybody but the 1% who control the government in Washington DC. Our children will be better off building identity around their region and their global cultural commonalities.
I speak as a former Marine who served in the Reserves — back when you could do 6 months of active, and who chose the Marines because they were the branch of the service I could get into quickest when otherwise I would have been drafted. It was a life-changing experience to share the same conditions with hundreds of young men of so many diverse backgrounds.
I have been advocating for national service ever since the military converted to voluntary. My only quibble with this post is that I believe national service should be mandatory, and for all genders. I also recognize that you gotta start somewhere. In reality, the more people who serve, the better opportunity to change the snobbish, elitist, exclusionary, “us vs them” attitudes that poison our society. Thus I believe mandatory national service should be the ultimate goal. I would love to live long enough to see that happen.
Yup – agree 👍 1000%. I support national service. It would open eyes & provide perspective and opportunity. CCC worked in the 1930s & results are still with us today. Let’s do it!
I could not agree more, and have been thinking about this for years. I know this country is so much larger than others, and it would be a complicated endeavor, likely relying on states to implement the program; But, I think right after senior year, putting our youth in a uniform, living together, working together on building housing, repairing roads, cleaning up communities, patrolling streets, etc – together – would be incredible. Housing and meals could be subsidized, giving many stability and common mission. Or maybe the way they do it in Turkey – there is a mandatory service, but it must be completed within a certain time frame, to give some flexibility, in case one needs to care for a family member, has a good job they can’t leave, etc. My oldest son just started at the Naval Academy. I am in awe of him and his fellow Plebes who made this choice, as he could have taken many other routes. When we asked him how he was feeling on our first phone call from him during Plebe Summer (after not hearing from him for many weeks), he said it was hard, he was tired, but ‘it feels really good to be part of something.’ That, to me, says it all.
Yup… For 50 years, I have been a teacher, coach, head of school at a New England boarding school. 95+% of our grads head off to college, a small % go into military, with very few of those making a career of it. However, every one of them exhibit a palpable pride, confidence, and sense of purpose once they move on with their adult lives… Like you, I regret not having served my country. (I did not burn my draft card, but the prospect of Vietnam flat-out scared the hell out of me!) I believe it was FDR who said, “Those who have long enjoyed the freedoms we enjoy forget in time that men died to win them.” Letting FDR slide on the gender-specificity thing — as Messr. Hegseth certainly will! — mandatory service makes much sense. Not everyone has to be prepared to die or kill, but everyone can (and should) serve.
It has been a pleasure to hear you, mostly on Morning Joe. I watched you on Real Time 11/14. It was a great line ‘as empty experiences go, it was one of the best.’ Unfortunately, the line is Woody Allen’s, from Love and Death. It would have been appropriate to give him credit. 337 654 6373
Having gone through National Service in the Singapore Army – Scott is dead wrong about what makes it work in countries like Israel, or Singapore. Three reasons why:
1) Necessity. Singapore is a tiny island nation about the size of NYC. National Servicemen make up more than 80% of its total military and law enforcement strength. Regardless of how much we bitch and moan about it (and we do), there is no one else to defend our island or police our streets. The investment banking associate has to be a trained artillery gunner, the marketing manager has to be a capable JTAC operator when the need arises.
2) Proximity. Unlike the US or most other Western nations, Singapore and Israel aren’t halfway around the world from their adversaries. Both countries have threats literally next door, and have experienced the trauma of being invaded from across the border. To most Americans, the threats are out of sight and out of mind. For us, our borders could be overrun in a matter of hours.
3) Legitimacy. Singapore and Israel’s militaries have a strictly defensive reason for existing. America’s military does not. For a variety of reasons both legitimate and questionable, it prosecutes military operations in places and for reasons most Americans simply don’t care about – understandably so.
For these reasons, the idea of national service will always be a non-starter unless a country faces similar conditions (e.g. in Eastern Europe).
This is a beautiful read. However, coming from Israel (and having lived abroad for 13 years now), where mandatory enrollment is in force, I feel that Israel is one of the most divided countries I have ever known.
I am reminded of my father, who like Scott, regrets not enlisting and strongly believes in national service as a tool for character building. While I both admire these men and listen carefully to what they say, I am confronted by the stench of privilege. Privilege of having never served, enriched themselves through the course of their lives, and had a son whom they simply cannot understand why National Service makes them detest their country of birth and what it represents. Privilege to grow old look back and say, on behalf of younger generations who have endured an economic kick in the nuts and say, “You know what would help? Mandatory service to your country, which if skipped, results in a court martial and jail sentence, don’t forget to be grateful!”
None of you will ever understand, and that’s fine. But i abhor people of an older generation who never served and claim to know what best. Advocating a system they never took part in.
Rishi Sunak ran re-election on mandatory national service for Brits. The conservative parties older voters backed this hard. What happened? The Tory party faded into irrelevance and lost the election so hard they have almost completely been replaced with the far right reform party. The writing is on the wall. National service isn’t the answer and is nothing more than a scapegoat for the soon to be dead generation to further punish any young person who bore the mistake of being born.
Cheers for your other articles though Scotty.
I would add as someone who served two years as a Sergeant in the Singapore Army, while I agree with Scott’s sentiment that there needs to be a binding force for youth in many developed countries today. Floating the idea of mandatory NS is akin to using a band-aid on someone who’s stepped on a landmine. There are deep, systemic issues that countries must contend with as to why people of genz feel a deep-rooted sense of shame and lack of pride for wherever country they come from. How much of the wealth has been hoovered up by the generation with mere decades left on this planet?
During my service I experienced 2 years of a system built on bullying, that clearly treated anyone (such as myself) who isn’t of the dominant racial class as an outsider with clear racially segregated lines drawn in the sand. Tempting though it may be to believe that everyone simply gets along, the reality people ignorantly choose to ignore is that the military is a microcosm of society as a whole. Whatever racial or class tensions that exist do not magically vanish once in barracks. I admire the naivete of the older generations in this, I also want to believe rich people, minorities, and who knows what else get together and realize they love their country and have a purpose, need I remind you of DJT “Bone Spurs” draft dodger? Like many of his class, every rich person I knew made up a medical condition and enlisted in something that made their service laughably easy, or avoided it entirely.
I also think at least 2 years of service after high school would give our kids more opportunities to grow self confidence and help with discipline like doing chores etc. There would be many benefits to such an idea and they’re limitless really. Service for 2 years in mostly peace corp kinds of ways so that we’re not putting them in danger really but showing them to love others by helping rebuild a village after a natural disaster or any number of humanitarian projects that would help grow their hearts for people of different backgrounds and cultures, it would give them the opportunity to get out of their small towns and see some of the world and how big it really is and how small we are alone but together we can stand strong and be the country that the rest of the world envys again. We want to be the good guys so when people see a US citizen they are happy not disappointed and we should be that country again. I miss being the country that was like a shining beacon on a hill.
National Service in the UK was wound down from 1957, finally ending in 1963. One of the major reasons for ending National Service was the argument from the UK’s armed forces that they could either socialise young people or defend the country, but not both.
Having spoken to people conscripted in the 150’s I would be careful what you wish for. One aphorism of draftees, regarding service people who volunteered, was ‘Regular soldier, regular bast**d.’
This phenomenon seems to be similar across at least the anglosphere. Pretty much everything you say about the US you could say about Australia, the UK, New Zealand, presumably Canada as well.
It’s a deep seated problem, but when younger people start to come into their boomer parent inheritances we might see some change. Here in Australia the substantial majority of retired people are spending no more than the income from their retirement savings.
Totally agree – would be good for our country and our young people! But to sell it to Trump don’t use love for his children, use the “what’s in it for him” money mentality – cheap labor, talented young people doing hard work. I’d love to see you in a Cabinet position when the D’s take back the White House !
Hello Scott,
I was inspired by you to do more community service. I volunteered to do a lecture at a University about the dangers of internet gambling. I wasn’t paid, I wasn’t motivated to build my resume as this is well out of my Mech Eng career but it felt so rewarding to help in some way.
Love your work, and thanks for the inspiration!
Raja K
I’m all in on mandatory service or at least tie it to the right to vote. If you’re not willing to serve your country is some capacity then why should you have a say in its governance? To quote JFK (not worm brain jr) “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country”
Scott,
I’ve had a huge issue with a lot of your takes recently but this one is spot on in my opinion.please don’t let this idea die and use your connections to try and make it happen.
Scott you’re right on. I will take it one step further national service should be a mandatory two year program following high school graduation. Military service would be voluntary and pay more than national service but every one would serve in some capacity. Upon completion of national service, a GI bill benefit would be available to all for further technical or professional education.
I enlisted at age 17 went around the world 1 1/2 times with the Navy. My best friends were a Puerto Rican from San Juan and a Black Man from Birmingham. The GI bill provided the funding for a Bachelors and two Masters Degrees. VA benefits provided a down payment on my first house and a pair of $8000 hearing aids every three years. For a relatively small input (time) on my part I have received countless benefits from my service far beyond the economic ones.
Russia isn’t the only country using mercenaries we use Hispanics to milk our cows, dig ditches build houses, Koreans to build our factories, East Asians for mechanical engineers and back room financial accounting operations and many others to out source jobs we can’t fill or we don’t want to do.
I was not expecting this type of article from Scott today.
What a pleasant surprise.
There’s this massive brainwashing matrix that’s hitting us 24/7 that white people are bad, law enforcement is bad, the military is bad, hate yourself, hate your country, hate your history, mutilate yourself, cut off your genitals…. just this massive neverending Struggle Session.
Maybe that’s the reason why so many young people have checked out of society and just want to get high & play video games.
Why participate in a matrix that hates your guts and wants you broken & defeated?
So to see someone from the left break ranks and write an article like this is really a pleasant surprise.
Can we take a second to just acknowledge and toast those moments.
Sometimes life will surprise you.
It’s rather hurtful to get a rant from some white guy who’s telling me that I’m bad because I’m a white guy.
I thought I’d better point out that those rants have come, ironically, from other white people.
There’s something really trashy about a rant trashing you just for being a white guy when it comes from some white guy who’s richer or better looking than you already, but wants to trash you to impress a hot lefty babe, and it sounds like he wants to lay because he’s sure she’ll just abort the baby and not even tell him about the embryonic kid.
Democratic ideals have may have some value, but I ask leftists to look in the mirror, so as not to be the sort of white trash that devalues them.
I also stress that reforming that sort of white trash, the sort that are just bullies looking for targets, would be a key factor in improving the state of manhood in the United States.
I saw an article from Salon that’s getting posted outside of the narrow Salon mindset, some woman ranting that video games cause the problems with men, the sort of rant that makes me wonder if she’s personally caused more of those problems than any video game in wide release and is in a state of denial.
If someone takes away a harmless respite, such as video games, that’s hurting more than it is helping.
I’d suggest that video games might be giving men a valuable break from what’s keeping them down.
I will note that she also blamed gambling.
Excessive gambling is bad, but it would still be the result of the things bearing down on young men more than the cause.
I also suspect that the people who are into heavy gambling have jobs and income. Some guy who’s in his bedroom all day playing video games is probably too broke for that. If some guy who’s successful blows a wad of money on football picks, that doesn’t have much to do with the argument about the problems of young men.
It would be pretty hard for the purple-haired “men” to function in the military.
I hope one of these days you meet one, who punches you in the nose to knock some senses into your small prejudiced brain.
Scott, you are so on target with suggesting and bringing back national service, especially for this generation and future generations.
Can’t pick your parents or when or where you’re born
A lot of GenZ social/work/relationship problems/issues/catastrophes are self-inflicted.
This too shall pass.
I dont have GenZ kids, thank god- mine are Alphas, Betas- they’ll have a better shot at the ballon..
I agree 100% with your points Prof G. I have believed this for quite a long time, based on my USMC experience. An Americorps experience can provide the same type of benefits, maybe even more for the country as a whole.
Interestingly enough, I had a lunchtime conversation about national service with some coworkers over 20 years ago. I was in my 30’s working a job with folks younger than me, my military experience wound up out putting me several years behind in the civilian workforce. To a person, their responses were the same, “Why would I do that?” “What’s in it for me?” I’d be curious to know if their views have changed over 20 years of life lived.
PS I hope you get an audience with the guy…
You make a persuasive case that the older generation is screwing the younger generation. So the solution is to force the younger generation to give up two years of their life in service to a nation with a system designed to make them relatively poorer? I’d say the older generation are the selfish, self-centered ones. Give the kids a chance. Let’s institute mandatory national service for baby boomers first.
I spent five years as a pilot in the USCG after college and attended Navy flight school led to all the success I had in business. I am now 72 and looking back national service for everybody is a no-brainer as a country was silly not to do this.
I’d love the forum to push back on some of Scott’s political ideas. Not here. I fully support national service concept. I won’t detail my dad’s political career but he was an elected official (legislature, governor, US Senate), popular and accomplished a lot. With the merit of national service as a topic, here’s an expert from a commencement speech he gave on May 25, 1969. Not 100% national volunteer service, but similarities. A seed was planted for our community college system. I couldn’t agree more that a period of service would be one of the best ideas to put forward and it’s about time. “Our colleges … today are in grave danger. Danger of retreating from the world into an academic ivory tower isolated and remote from the challenges of the present. In danger of holding so dear the pursuit of pure knowledge that the application of that knowledge to today’s needs never occurs….I suggest the establishment of a “student technical service corps”. Instead of manning the barricades on our campuses, go into the streets and by using educational tools make education work on the festering problems of our 20th century America…The opportunity is to be a builder of the society you will soon inherit. If the private enterprise system will join with you by committing its enormous financial and productive capacity, then we could create a new, unusual and decisive partnership that may be the best hope for the remainder of this 20th century.”
Free or slave, educated or not?Black people, especially black men, were not allowed to serve until the korean war with of course, the exception of the.Red tales in world war ii.
And even they were disrespected, despite their heroism.
Not much has changed in that regard.
Do you think pam bondi is transgender?
A whole lot has changed. I guess you’ve never served eh? In all of the organizations that Scott mentions nobody cares about your background or race. You’re working towards a common goal. And that’s the point
38 trillion-dollar deficit. Where’s the money coming from?
Print and roll over the debt. Been working great so far.
Tap into the trillion-dollar tax breaks given to the 1% in the first and the second disastrous administrations of bone-spur Donald.
Inspiring. Always appreciate Scott’s writings, and SO agree with them. I’m nearing retirement age, and unsure what to do with myself, and even whether I shouls stay in this country, (have been checking out Central America).
After reading Scott’s post, I inquired about volunteers for Seniors. Turns out there is a Seniors in Service program, one called Foster Grandparent program, that involves volunteering in HS and other programs to assist. And it has a few qualifying requirements that I appreciate. I was involved in Big Brothers years ago – hope the HS involvement is as rewarding.
Thanks for pointing this our Scott!
Gulfport, FL
My grandmother was a foster grand parent at Greene Valley (the last state owned facility for disabled people whose families couldn’t take care of them) and when they started to close down they sent her to the elementary school to help in the library and she loved doing the work. It didn’t pay much but it helped to supplement some of her income and she enjoyed working with both the kids and the disabled people (some of which were also children) and it helped keep her busy and her body and mind lasted longer than her siblings. Also, being needed like that made her feel good too. I miss that woman with every breath I take, she raised me and I wouldn’t have changed that for the world.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. We urgently need a scaled up national service program. As a former Peace Corps Volunteer in Ethiopia (1962-1964), I was disappointed you only mentioned the benefits of service in AmeriCorps. I have never been sure about the value of my service to Ethiopia, but what I learned personally has served me well for the past 60 years. Most importantly, I learned to respect & value the differences among cultures, & among the other Americans who served with me. Differences have made my life so much richer. Also, I learned about the importance of life long volunteer work in a community. For me, Peace Corps gave me a direction for my life. I still consider it the most significant experience in my life. Many returned Peace Corps Volunteers feel the same way. Many have immersed themselves in volunteer work in their local communities. Like myself, many have had or have careers in international service agencies.
This is one of the few times that I am in total agreement. I missed the draft in the 70’s and started in business in ’76. About 90% of the people I worked with had been in the service. From them I learned by osmosis about teamwork, hierarchy and a true love of country and how lucky we are to be here. I started my own business and noticed a shift in attitude in the mid 90’s. The first question I would get from interviewees was “How much vacation do I get” instead of when can I start work.
My father went to Canada in 1940 and renounced his US citizenship and joined the RCAF. He was repatriated to USAAF & served 16 years total. He often said WW2 mixed city/country/rich/poor etc kids and that was a great unifier. While I didn’t serve I have long advocated for mandatory national service (I do like being right.). As the father of a 25 year old son I definitely see the value this would have.
Scott, thanks for this post—I have long (decades!) held that such service has both benefits to the larger community and to the individuals serving. I worked for 40+ years in public college student financial aid and spoke w/ many former Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Conservation Corps participants (participation often comes with benefits that can contribute to a college education’s cost & have to be coordinated if also receiving student aid) and how it changed their lives and opened their eyes & educated them. I also observed that enrollment at a public University often “throws together” students of diverse backgrounds, particularly class-diverse, and is a way to broaden horizons. This is not unlike how the military draft of yore co-mingled folks across society’s “fault lines” and often erased old prejudices.
Talk talk talk … The USA has no 100 year plan … every 4, 6 or 10 years the Party in Power changes the direction of the wind so much so that Xi & Putin are eating Americas lunch in developing nations. The Military route for young Americans teaches discipline, honor and purpose however when they leave the MIlitary the Civilian route shames them for their service (this is not to say private security firms, technology companies and other military related company’s do this) but the Civilian world via the Mass Media, the Star Bucks Crowd and the Gamer Generation. Meanwhile the University route is indoctrinating through brainwashing young impressionable students with Leftist Ideals of Socialism, Communism, Racism, Illegal Immigration with Open Borders & Anti-Colonialism all of which are 100% ANTI-AMERICAN. The USA needs to find its way back to the Center for ALL Americans. I say … purpose these young American with conscription into the Military and create new branches that serve USA Citizens at home by creating a pathway with direction in the basics of living: Health, Shelter, Education, Life Skills and Professional Skills. If a young person wants to go directly to college, then so be it, but encouraging American Values needs to be the core value of an American University Education or the next 20 years every Mayor, Governor, Senator & Congressman will be driving the USA into the hands of SOcialism, COmmunism and Fascism.
“University is socialist brainwashing”
This guy 100% has never been exposed to higher education.
So biased and ill-informed. Could have done without their post.
Open borders is how your ancestors got here. Ted doesn’t sound like a native American name. Letting in immigrants who want to contribute to our society would be the most American thing ever. Can’t wait for pendulum to swing back from the nationalist Trump folk on this issue. It inevitably will.
Hi Scott,
Military enlisted veteran who became the first-person in his family to graduate from college courtesy of the Post-911 GI Bill. I am a devout believer in compulsory service, and it doesn’t mean military service. It could be the armed forces, peace corps, city year, Habitat-for Humanity, etc. I propose two years from ages 18-20. We provide all community colleges free. Use those schools to knock out the general education requirements. Upon earning associates degrees, students who desire to continue their education can transfer to the “traditional” four-year universities, who I believe should scrape the general education programs and focus their academics on specialities and graduate schools. Harvard can be a laboratory for science or government service, UCLA on pre-medicine and research, Texas Tech on engineering, etc. Everyone serves. The vast majority of Americans would have a baseline AA education. Larger institutions can put all of their eggs on specialized pedagogy. Community Colleges can provide a laboratory for those who desire to teach. Most importantly, those with BA’s/BS’s have only two-years of student loan debt vs four.
I wish I had some intelligent way to participate in this conversation, but at this particular moment I am simply writing to say, damn. Great! Great post. you brought it together just damn near perfectly. and i been saying… 100% national service strategy for mental wellness and for productivity long-term.
I was in a college access program in high school called Admission Possible (now College Possible) that was staffed almost entirely by AmeriCorps volunteers. Thanks to the volunteers of that program, I made it to an out of state liberal arts college that had resources to support me and I thrived compared to high school. Shortly after stepping foot on campus I promised to return the favor and sign up for AmeriCorps with College Possible. I happened to be placed at my former high school, helping high school seniors get into college and find a way to pay for it.
You hit the nail on the head, Scott. My opportunity with AmeriCorps has been a tremendous point of personal pride, but was also an incredible time for growth. I developed a skill and a career path, working alongside 75 other 22-25 year olds was a lightning rod for social connection and building community, and the connections I built with the participants I served will last a lifetime (I’ve hired several former students over the years).
I could not agree more with the overwhelming benefits of a nation-wide mandated national service program.
You state – “At the end of Notes on Being a Man, I close with a letter to my sons, urging them to be patriots — to vote, pay taxes, and be evangelists for America and its values”
What exactly are our values, as a nation, that we can credibly evangelize?
A straightforward approach would be to select a handful of aspirations from the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, equal protection under the law, E pluribus Unum, any of the First Amendment protections and obligations. Pick a few that you feel deserve your commitment. Act and communicate with whoever, whenever, and wherever you have a chance to make a positive impression. Start that communication by asking a relevant question and listening hard to the answers. “What do you think national service means? Do you feel it would be broadly beneficial to the nation and its citizens? What issues or concerns do you have?”
Why not expand the concept even wider? Why can’t we have workfare instead of welfare? Take the money, receive OJT, and gradually migrate into the workforce.
For some reason, we’ve stopped talking about the institutionalization of poverty, but it’s real, and probably contributes to the undercurrent of anger in this country. That, and hoping for jobs that no longer exist. We ought to be advancing the country and our people.
I don’t care if they are college level jobs or not (and as an old person, deeply resent the characterization of college life below – it’s shallow and lame)….we need tradesmen too and God knows our infrastructure needs work. End of story. Or beginning of story.
We sort of already have that. The flaw is childcare. There simply aren’t enough qualified facilities or people to work in them. Make childcare free and staff those facilities with credentialed and qualified individuals, then we can talk about workfare.
Seems like another workfare opportunity to me. We’re not exactly great to our teachers
I can’t believe you left out the Peace Corps! I finally served in the Peace Corps in Romania after I was 60 and my children were grown. That country had been communist for decades but had just joined the European Union two weeks before I arrived, and my work was to teach them how to belong to a democracy. My group did amazing work and did include a few other older volunteers like me. That’s the best National Service there is, is my opinion. And when I left in 2004, China was ramping up a similar service in Africa! Not, of course, for Democracy.
Kristin in Alaska
I was going to write the same! You can’t beat Peace Corps for national service and putting forward the best of America around the globe. It’s still a vital and inspiring organization.
Chris Cox
Returned Peace Corps Volunteer
Côte d’Ivoire 2002
Ghana 2002-2004
I am in total agreement on the pointing out the problems and the proposed solutions.
On one point I would beg to differ.
Servicing the debt is indeed, mostly, current generation paying for what prior generations consumed ( apart from capital investments .)
Social security and Medicare are mostly expenses which the prior generations paid into.and are basically very good programs although they should be adjusted to reflect current realities like longevity, medical advancements , costs etc.
In any case these two are not wealth transfer from young to old.
The idea of mandatory service for all high school graduates is a good one. Serving the greater good is a much needed value that our youth desperately need. Selling this idea will be difficult to our current culture which is self centered and materialistic. It will take much better leadership than we currently have.
The problem, as articulated by Reason, the Libertarian think tank, is that such programs are fine until whoever is in charge of the curriculum decides that people must take DEI courses, or Heritage Foundation-sponsored courses, and go spread that gospel. The WPA built some fine buildings, but no talent like that exists today. Sure, going to teach kids to read is great, but if you live in Florida, like I do, there are banned books, and on and on. How do you address that? I think it’s not possible.
PS read Startup Nation. Our 18 year olds who go to college go off and smoke pot and screw. Israelis go into service with the kids they grew up with, and make life or death decisions in the IDF, even in live fire training. They come out much more mature.
I think you are thinking of your generation in college. Many kids today are nerds in college. Many boys won’t drive. Girls are not looking for husband. The college of drink, screw, pot was prevalent in the 70’s not so much today.
Ideas may sound like a good idea but they often lack issues that make the idea less than a good idea.
I don’t think I would be alone but I would do anything to keep my children out of government service. Look at how we treat Veterans. We have a President that “doesn’t like those who got caught (John McCain), a President that refused to serve himself. My oldest brother (now deceased) served in 60’s. My mother, correct or not, said her son came home an alcoholic. I was little so maybe true, maybe not. My children went to school with two sons from Singapore who were in the US to avoid government service. So Scott while your idea may sound good, no one would support sending their children to service. I raised triplets and from kindergarden to high school the message I sent was college, college, college. My three all went straight to college (even my son who yes was far less ready) and they all graduated despite the last year was finished at home due to the pandemic. No way I would have allowed a gap year. Too easy to get lost. I was out of high school 5 years before going back and it was very hard to get my college degree and not nearly as much fun as it would have been if I went straight out of high school.
Teaching our children to honor America? It gets more difficult everyday.
Singapore is the most religiously diverse nation on the planet? Really? Ever heard of India?
Its pretty widely cited. The difference is there is no predominant religion in Singapore. No religion represents more than 1/3 of people… its the most distinctly balanced.
Its based on the distribution of multiple sizable religious groups without a single dominant majority, which is not the case in India—even though India is home to many religions, Hinduism represents a very large majority there.
You at 100% right. I wrote a similar comment to your previous post. Service in Vietnam absolutely for the better, made me an overall better person with a lot of confidence in myself and no fear of death. There are things worse than death. In my family I see that the grandchildren at the age of finishing high school seem better than the slightly older young people. My daughter, who chose not to marry, has raised her children with much love but an iron hand and I step in when I can (I live far away) to provide a male presence. I see hopeful signs in my wife’s grandchildren, at least half of whom seem to be on a constructive path. I’m happy to see you aboard on this.
I’m just a little older than these young men, and I’ve seen these calls dozens of times and they never come with either of two things that would actually make them generationally fair. Either; a) you remove the “youth” part, or b) you use them as a legitimate redistributive lever.
In support of the former, I say: how much selfless patriotism and shared purpose have the boomers and gen x-ers shown that we think they ought to be exempt from this unity program? Are they doing so well emotionally? Are they so much more welded to a responsible and positive purpose, or are they just richer? If you want my kids to pick up a rifle or a shovel, then you and I should pick one up right next to them. Regret your lack of service no more, Scott!
In support of the latter: If you want generational fairness, you don’t get to ask my kids to take a prime earning and career development year off their plate unless you’re replacing it with an even better opportunity. How about a substantial top marginal tax increase, and you triple the wage for the national service year? Starting kids off with a big financial head start (plow it into an S&P index investing trust fund, if you must) would certainly mitigate a lot of the insult to the injury in losing a year of career development.
Without either it’s “Hey Xander, why don’t you take another one for the team to benefit a generation who kicked over every ladder they ever climbed?”
A national service model fixes so many things, and you could do it without substantially increasing the federal budget. There can be different service models you get credit for – military, merchant marines, PeaceCorps, Teach for America, Doctors without Borders, local non-profits, municipal boards, etc.
68-yo Boomer mom of 2 sons here. I completely agree. Also, we need to provide alternative ways for teens to get out of high school if they’re ready to move on to national service, trade schools, or apprenticeships at age 16.
There are MANY ways to get out of HS and into a trade school – a very useful career / life track. Heck, my parents tried to get me to go to a vocational program in HS. When I pursued my graduate degree, MBA at Columbia – my father asked me: Why? Do you want to be a teacher? Your environment shapes you a LOT!
I don’t think many disagree on the year of National Service so I wonder what is preventing us from getting it done? Can we get an MBA class somewhere to crunch the numbers? My son wasn’t ready for college and did AmeriCorp’s City Year middle school mentorship program. It changed his life in addition to making a difference in helping students at risk of dropping out of school.